The first time this incident happened my husband told me not to get involved. The second time, today, I could not ignore it.
Apparently the rules of the school (elementary Catholic) are that the students are not to wear hats INSIDE the school. I can see the reasoning behind this as their are kids who would be inclined to keep their hats on at all times. But please, when a student is entering the school (possibly with hands full of books and stuff) they should be allowed to wear their hat until they get to their classroom and then remove it when they remove the rest of their outdoor wear.
The first time the teacher took my daughter's hat away from her it was after lunchtime recess, I believe. She was told to pick up the hat at the end of the day before she left for home. So that means she did not wear a hat at afternoon recess. Today, my daughter had her hat on as she was putting on her boots and coat. The same teacher took the hat away from her and told her she could pick it up in the morning. DD said it was cold outside and she had to walk home. The teacher told her to use her hood.
I phoned the school and ranted into their answering machine. First of all, that hat cost something like $25. Second of all, we are constantly getting reminders from the school that our children dress appropriately for the weather - dress warmly for the winter (and it IS winter here - a foot of snow on the ground). I have never seen in any newsletter that they are not permitted to wear their hats in school. And third, women are permitted to wear hats IN CHURCH!!!! The priest told me so himself. It doesn't matter what kind of hat they are wearing, females do not have to take their hats off in church (though I insist that my daughters do).
What do you think? Should I have kept out of it or did I have a right to jump all over the school for this stupid rule. When people get dressed they have a routine. When my daughter gets dressed to go outside she puts her hat on first, then her coat, then her boots. Not everyone works this way but thank God she wears a hat! My older daughter refused to dress warmly when she was that age (12).
Guys, any support you can offer me would be great cuz I'm practically shaking I'm so mad.
[question posted by patgalca]
responses and comments:
Oh I can tell you come tomorrow morning I would BE AT the school. I can see teachers taking away cell phones; toys; ect. but a hat that a child needs to have on during the winter months?! Are they insane??!! Yes ma'am I would be so mad I wouldn't hardly be able to contain myself. What do they want the children to do- wait till they are already outside in the cold air to put their hats on? I think this teacher is a nut case and I would most certainly be at the school speaking with her and her superior. [BethsMom24]
I asked my daughter if any other kids lost their hats to this teacher today and she named a few other kids. This is a brand new hat my daughter wanted so badly. I am sure after my message on their voice is heard I will be getting a phone call from the principal. *cringe* [patgalca]
I'd be mad too so I agree with you. I find some of their rules are way overboard. My daughter had to miss several gym classes because her class wouldn't be quiet. Now how fair is that? So if 3 people are acting up why is the whole class punished?? Then the last two days when I go to pick her up (I meet her at the catwalk) she has been late. She said her teacher kept them in after school for a few extra minutes cause people were talking. I said then you tell her parents are waiting, wasting gas trying to keep a car warm and damaging our ozone layer. I mean really though why do they have to do stupid things like this???? But I don't blame you for being mad at all. If they took my child's hat till recess or whatever then fine but to make her go home without it I would be livid too. [coolcatzz]
I remember when I was a kid the snow plow would shovel the snow into huge piles of snow in our school yard. We would climb these snow hills and slide down them. Nowadays the kids are only allowed to play ON THE PAVEMENT. Well, they have been known to make snow forts but that causes conflict when other kids knock them down. Kids aren't allowed to have fun anymore. And here is another thought, a teacher may have been over-ruling a mother's rule. That's not right! [patgalca]
This teacher is being unreasonable that's for sure. I would be going to the school and talking not only with this teacher but the principal as well. Sitting them both down and talking about this will be best if you take care of it right away. I do not agree with this teacher at all. Why couldn't the teacher wait till your daughter got to her classroom to take it off not by entertaining the school and taking it away right away. I know that all schools don't like the students to be wearing hats around the school which I understand but in your daughters case she wasn't harming anyone and was just waiting to get to her classroom to take it off. I give her credit that she tried to stick up for herself and get her hat back and I think this is another point that you should bring up. It's cold out and every child should have their hat. Not fair to her to say the least. [nicholejade]
I don't understand why they took the hat away from her. I could see if she was goofing off with it or was wearing it during class and distracting someone, but she wasn't. I would have done the same thing! [sedel1027]
Hi pat~I don't really think that they should have made such a big deal about this. After all your daughter wasn't wearing it during school hours. She was getting ready to go outside so I don't think that it was necessary for them to take the hat away from her and not give it back until the next day. I feel they reacted inappropriately. I feel that you had every right to be angry in this particular instance. [Opal26]
Thanks, Opal. happy [patgalca]
That is the stupidest rule I've ever heard of. You have every right to get upset. Maybe you should charge the teacher with theft? (Or, at least threaten to...) That would get them rethinking their idiocy. [BarBaraPrz]
The theft idea wouldn't work as those kids who bring electronic devices to school are to hand them in at the office at the beginning of the day and get them back at the end of the day. Some could consider that a form of thievery. I really left a nasty message on the school answering machine. I'll be quaking in my boots tomorrow, especially since DH had told me to stay out of it the first time around and he will be home tomorrow. shocked [patgalca]
That teacher is not using common sense and is watching your child too much. Do not talk in front of your child. Take this up with teacher at school...no resolution talk to head master. Kids are kids.. [jordan04n]
I am sure I will get a call back after the message I left on the answering machine. I finished with, "I don't want to hear of this happening again!" Enough is enough. I think my bigger issue is that females are allowed to wear hats in a church so why do they have to remove them before they walk inside the school doors?confused [patgalca]
To some, this may just be a very minor issue. But I'm a mother and what I give my kid to wear has a significant purpose. If I give him a hat, that would be to shield him. It's just not out of fashion that I include hats in his accessories. And you do have a point to be upset. Your calling the school to make your point is certainly appropriate , as far as my opinion is concerned. At least the school admin would know that some people take their own rules seriously and not just go along with some craps that may sometimes get ridiculous! So, don't worry. Your behavior was just fine. [dianavarro]
I got a phone call while I was in the shower today. I knew I was going to miss it. I checked the answering machine and got a cheerful message from the teacher in question saying, "This is XXX from XXX School. I understand you called yesterday and I'm just returning your call." Cheery as can be she was! Ggggrrrrr! Don't know whether to call the principal now, or wait until recess and call the teacher. [patgalca]
That is really ubsurd that the teacher would take away a hat because she was putting it on to go outside. How petty and ridiculous. Kind of sounds like that teacher doesn't have anything better to do then to be on hat patrol. I would defiantly said something about it when your child had to go out without a hat in the freezing cold weather. I think that if a student is getting dressed to go out side or just comes in from outside there should be some kind of lenancy that allows them to have their hat on for that certain period of time. It's not like the child is trying to be disrespectful or intentionally disobeying rules. Which that hat rule is quite stupid. In this case I probably would have done the same thing you did. [tlb0822]
Oops... my daughter is in grade 7 and been there since JK. [patgalca]
If it is really cold and the stupid rule caused your daughter to go out in the cold with just her hood protecting her head, I think you have every right to be furious! Regulations are supposed to protect kids not put them in danger! [scarletwitch12]
Good point. Thanks for your response. [patgalca]
This is what happens when a school has a zero tolerance rule. People get stupid. Here where I live a student was expelled because hiw mother put a butter knife in his lunch to cut up a banana when he first got his braces and she thought it would be easier for him. I could see the teacher taking your daughters hat if she was wearing it in class. I would be livid too and the school would be getting a call from me too. Sometime when some rules are put in place some people just get stupid apparently this teacher is one of them. [deebomb]
I don't blame you for being so upset, patgalca. I am upset just reading about it. I would talk to the principal. I would also write a letter to the school's governing body expressing my concerns, being sure to include the idea of grace. The teachers' behavior in this seems quite unreasonable. Being that the school is private, you may not have as many avenues of complaint (letter to the newspaper, etc.) but I still hope that things can change to your daughters' benefit. This is just ridiculous. Perhaps you could even suggest (heehee) a school hat? [Transdisc]
I spoke to the principal this morning. She was unaware that this was happening. Yes, the children are not to wear hats during class time, on their way to gym, etc. But going in and out of school is permitted. And "there is no rule, per se". She is going to talk to the teacher to see if there is more to this than what my daughter is telling me, though I don't believe she would lie about this. Even the secretary was stunned that her hat was taken from her at the end of the day. We'll see what happens now. I'm still shaking from talking with her. [patgalca]
I can really empathise with your position ... however, a "rant" over the phone wouldnt help matters much. Teachers generally stand up for each other in issues such as this. Perhaps you should seek clarification down to the moment when the children are allowed wear hats, etc. Put the issue of your child's health back to them, and suggest that if your daughter suffers a cold or flu because of this teacher's actions, you will furnish both the school and the teacher the medical bills. A little bit of common sense is needed here ... kids do love to break the rules, and do like to push teachers to the limit... there is a need to have kids observe the rules as are applicable to them ... but there should also be a little bit of understanding from the teachers as well. The issue of wearing hats in church is a separate issue, although I do admire the respect you show for the church. I have seen women, on occasion, wearing the most inappropriate headgear in church, and they just say "we're allowed to wear hats" .... Festive season or not, glowing lights on a reindeer hat is NOT respectful of occasion and place. Thanks for the discussion, and happy MyLotting! [cooler1968]
Any adult or even child will tell you that the cold doesn't make you sick so that isn't a valid argument. Plus, being in Canada, we don't have medical bills. And my child is not the rebellious type. It is her routine to put her hat on before she puts her coat and boots on. I have spoken to the principal and she is in agreement with me that this was totally unreasonable. They are not supposed to wear hats during class, while walking in the halls to go to the gym or washroom, but coming in or out from outside is acceptable. The principal will be talking to the teacher about her making her own rules since there really isn't a written rule. [patgalca]
i know at my daughters school, hats are not allowed in the school either (its a gang thing apparently) but this is crazy! the teacher had no right to keep the hat over night. you need to go to the teacher and complain, if you dont get a satisfactory answer from the teacher, talk to the principal, if not the principal, talk to your local school board. that is not right. [cher913]
If the School persists with this rule it seems to me they are leaving themselves open to being sued by parents who's children get sick from colds, ear infections, or chest colds. It might be a good idea to notify the school board to this affect. Its a rather unfortunate rule to enforce in cold inclement weather. The Catholic School Boards in Ontario seem to be playing God quite regularily as well. Perhaps they too need to be taken down a peg! [barehugs]
Hats are made to keep the head warm in cold weather. Children are susceptible to head colds, therefore they should wear hats outside. The teacher should know that before going outside, the child has to put on outdoor gear. She should put on booties, scarf, coat and hat in that order. Anyway, for the teacher to take it away is just deplorable, Catholic school or public school. [JanetBRudman]
You are right to have spoken up. I would have done the very same thing. This reminds me of when I was in high school. We weren't allowed to wear coats in the classroom, well actually it was only one classroom where the teacher enforced it. Coincidentally it was the coldest, and leakiest classroom on campus. Anyway, there wasn't anything listed in the school handbook that coats weren't allowed in the classroom, and I was tired of freezing for the whole bell because the teacher wanted to be a butthole. So one day, I decided that I wouldn't take it off. The teacher gave us our assignment and told us that we were to take our coats off. I started the assignment, but remained warm in my coat. She looked at me and asked me to take it off. I kindly told her "No thank you" and kept working. She asked again, and again I politely refused. She says to me "Kenya you are disrupting the class." I told her "No I'm not, you are. I'm sitting here quietly doing my work." So since she couldn't get me to move, she called security at the school. Same routine, they ask me to take my coat off, I told them no thank you. They threatened to call home since I was disrupting the class. I said "I'm not disrupting the class, you are the ones that don't belong here. But if you want to call my house..."(At that time my parents ran a business out of their home, and I had some of their Business Cards in my purse) I then handed them a card and continued my work. Since they kept asking me and I could not get my work done, I finally gave in and went to the office. I told the principal the same thing. That it was cold in that particular classroom (Jeez, you could see outside through one of the cracks in the wall) and that there was nothing posted in her classroom nor in the school handbook that says I couldn't wear it. We're not going to talk about the posters she put in the classroom the next day *eyerolls* [drknlvly6781]
I have always thought this was a mess too. Now, I know that schools were beginning to worry about Weapons being brought into the school, but couldn't I have brought some of the very same weapons in my bookbag or in my clothes? My figuring was that if I wore my coat in this extremely cold classroom that Cincinnati Public Schools didn't have enough money to repair, then I would get sick less, and I could attend school throughout the winter. But the teacher was an azz, so she wanted coats off. [drknlvly6781]
In my area the schools had a 'no hat' policy because certain hats were used in ways to signify membership in a gang. With that in view it makes the reason for the rule seem reasonable. However, anything can be taken to an extreme and that seems to be what this teacher is doing. Since your daughter was made to go outside in the cold without her hat you have cause for complaint. I would have been angry, too. Personally though I would have gone to the school rather than trying to handle it on the phone. I like to look in peoples eyes when I am having a difference of opinion with them. Especially if it concerns my child. [savak03]
I probably would have walked her to school the next day and retrieved the hat myself from this teacher, and told her in person what I thought about her taking my child's personal belongings. It's not like it was a baseball cap or something silly, it was a necessary winter hat! [katsmeow1213]
That's good to know. Not sure it would have been good enough for me, but I tend to over react quite a bit to things like this, lol. [katsmeow1213]